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Shugden fortune tellers have long forecast significant upheaval when Shugden reincarnated to avenge his alleged murder in the 1600s, to destroy the Dalai Lama tradition and to rid Tibet of its alleged degeneration since the last time Shugden was alive. The Tibetan Government in Exile would cease to exist as the current Dalai Lama was discredited and the Dalai Lama legacy terminated.

The life of everyone on earth was promised to be elevated amidst cataclysmic change. The world would be cured of its ailments. Disbelievers would be converted one way or another, or perish.


During the month of June 2010, Shugdenites claim distributing about 150,000 brochures in England, more than half of the content in Chinese with these promises,

"He increases intelligence and memory.

He protects you from dangers and harm.

He clears obstacles and brings wealth.

He brings healing to the body, mind and spirit.

He...grants our wishes quickly.

I would have almost died in a car accident if not for Dorje Shugden.

Dorje Shugden turned my finances around so quickly - it was amazing."

According to one NKT supporter,

"Flooding the whole world with DS is the way to go! YES! Do not under-estimate the power of FAMILIARITY. Once more and more people are exposed to DS and are used to seeing DS's image, they will easily welcome him into their lives and even be receptive to all the precious teachings. Everyone is doing whatever they can to help, contribute and make a difference. This is the way to usher the great King's Return to REIGN!"

The time is now upon us for all the promises made on Shugden's behalf.

With his reincarnation, deemed definitive by Shugdenites to have occurred a few decades ago but held secret until now, Shugden is finally here to save us all.

The clock is now ticking. When will Shugden deliver? How will he deliver?

And, what is to happen with NKT? Its balloon is now popped. NKT has virtually nothing to offer without its western Shugdenism.

Ah, there's the rub. Without its torch for an etherial Shugden ghost, trivial compared to the real Shugden somewhere now living as a human, NKT may whither as a result of losing its 'unique selling position'.

NKT's main practice, Shugden worship, is needless in the face of the existence of a real Shugden.

NKT is probably now in panic mode.

It is predictable for NKT to deny Shugden's reincarnation. It would be bad for business to embrace Shugden's reincarnation.

Factionalism among Shugdenites seems likely.


Shugdenite infighting has already begun, within 1 day of the news release that Shugden reincarnated and is alive today. About the big news, NKT remains silent...remarkable given the magnitude of the news and the massive amount of energy invested by Kelsang Gyatso and NKT in Shugden since 1996 (Shugden reincarnated 15+ years before that, but 'Buddha' Kelsang Gyatso knew not...proof that he not close to a Buddha).

For example,

"I am very disturbed by the responses of people who are in the 'forefront' of dorje shugden practice (I shall not put in names, but you know who you are).

The cards are not all laid out on the table yet and I don't think we can speculate any of its social effects in the future, BUT the fact that the incarnation of Tulku Dragpa Gyeltsen is back, shouldn't we rejoice and think about how to support this Tulku? Or perhaps uphold the 'fort' well until he returns to turn the wheel of Dharma?

Sometimes I am very disheartened by the pessimistic or cynic comments that criticize everything that is good that arise from this forum. I am sure the website team has worked very hard and spent a lot of time and effort and money to get correct and valuable information, namely from Shar Gaden, news from various great masters (eg Gaden Tripa switch camp), and now this great news. What have we contributed to support this website and the Shugden community who are quietly reading the posts?

This is the definitive Dorje Shugden website and what you say here is a reflection of Dorje Shugden's lineage, and this is how you 'welcome' the news that an incarnation is found?! I think even if the real incarnation of Tsongkhapa is back and is on this forum, the people here will start the same argument and doubt that he's not.

I am sorry to say, if you have so much doubt in the Tulku system and critical of oracles etc, please, even your Guru's guru (or somewhere in the lineage Gurus) relied on Tulku system and oracles. Like what TK said, the Tulku system has been useful in the past till now, so let it play its role.

If I am not mistaken, In 1988 and 1990 the uncle of Geshe Kelsang, Ven. Choyang Duldzin Kuten Lama - the oracle of Dorje Shugden - also visited Manjushri Institute. If Geshe-la thought that the Tulku system and oracles play no role, he would have advised Kuten Lama to stop and perhaps assist his work in Kadampa?

It is great that Geshe Kelsang Gyatso banned the promotion of tulku's within his organization, so that his lineage and students survived based on pure studies, and hence perhaps creating a new geshe/ monastic system in the west, but doesn't mean all others are not good. Don't use your organisation's rule to 'outcast' others please.

Then we might as well just say Dalai Lama advised us to ban Shugden practice, so should we all pack up our statues and burn our prayer books?"


"I believe Geshe Kelsang Gyatso has his own reasons for not endorsing the tulku or oracle system. We have to look at the environment he is operating in. All Geshe-la's students are non-Tibetans and most of them Westeners who do not have a clue or have any experience of how a tulku or an oracle system works. However, that doesn't mean he does not believe in it or think that these systems are nonsensical. Geshe-la is from Sera Je monastery. He entered Sera-Je at the age of 8 as a novice monk and grew up in a monastic environment that practices these systems. Futhermore, with Gesha-la stainless Guru Devotion, I don't think it would ever cross his mind to think that what his guru Trijang Rinpoche practiced was wrong.

Therefore, I think Geshe-la does not endorse these systems in the context of the western world within which his organization operates probably because there is really no support for such a system to function effectively. Geshe-la may be qualified to recognize an incarnation but does he have a support system to follow-up on training the recognized incarnation if he has found one. He may be qualified to know how to maintain an oracle system but would his students be able sustain it when he passes on. Furthermore, Gesha has been ex-communicated from Sera Je and ostracized by Tibetan monasteries for practicing Dorje Shugden. His access to monastery resources on these aspects has been cut completely. He knows for a fact that if it is going to be him alone managing these systems without any support internally and externally, it's not going to work.

As such, he does not support the tulku or the oracle system because he does not want to encourage it in his organization. He does not want such systems to be subject to abuse for worldly reasons in the future especially when he is no longer around. This is Gesha-la's skilful means to protect the purity of these systems, I feel. It does not mean that these systems practiced by the great lamas in the past are not valid. It has to suit the time, place and environment."


"If a great lama recognized this person decades ago (as it said), who are you to criticize? Why do you surpass the lamas when it comes to the Tulku and Oracle system?? You don't like it, fine. Don't criticize. It has served its purpose well among the elite greats who finds the system genuine and beneficial. Trijang Rinpoche becomes wrong when it comes to issues you don't like, nor our culture doesn't support? Because Geshe Kelsang doesn't support it (tulku reincarnation), then it's wrong. Well if he's saying it's wrong, then maybe he can be wrong also? Didn't Geshe-la forbid forum use? Then are you Geshe-la's students not listening to what he says and turning things around for your advantage?"