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Here They Go Again

As noted in another essay (WSS, NKT Devilish Ultra-Ego), visiting the WSS web site is highly recommended.

The new top story is an offensive letter to Dr. Robert Thurman, who was ordained in 1964 as the first American Tibetan Buddhist, earned his Harvard Ph.D. in Sanscrit Indian Studies in 1972, was one of Time Magazine's 25 most influential people in the world, is the Tsongkhapa Professor of Religion at Columbia Univiersity, is President of Tibet House in New York City, and is a prolific author and translator of Tibetan Buddhism literature. Dr. Thurman is the father of the actress, Uma Thurman.


10th September 2008

To Robert Thurman,

We the Western Shugden Society are writing this letter regarding your previous public statement that Shugden people are sectarian, naming them “the Buddhist Taliban”; and your recent public statement that the Western Shugden Society protestors are “working for the Chinese”.

As you know, Shugden people want to practice the Gelug tradition purely, without mixing with the Nyingma tradition. Because of this the Dalai Lama has said to Shugden people that they are sectarian. In truth, the Nyingmapa also want to practice their Nyingma tradition purely without mixing with the Gelug tradition; and it is the same for the Sakyapa and Kagyupa. So according to the Dalai Lama’s view, the Nyingmapa, Sakyapa and Kagyupa are also sectarian, but he only says that Shugden people are sectarian. In reality he is lying.

If you, Robert Thurman, are not yourself lying, then you must show your evidence to prove your public statements: that Shugden people are sectarian, “the Buddhist Taliban” as you named them; and that the Western Shugden Society is working for the Chinese. You should show your evidence publicly through the internet before 25th October 2008. If your evidence does not appear by this date then we will conclude that you have lied publicly and are misleading people.


Western Shugden Society


Liar liar, pants on fire - the new theme song for NKT/WSS.

Like an irritating pest, NKT/WSS demands a response to its September letter.....OR ELSE. Or else, NKT/WSS will conclude that Dr. Thurman has lied.

Quite a sophomoric strategy. Attack someone, in this case a widely respected professional, for several years, and then demand a response to a preposterous charge. Lack of response will then be marketed as proof of a lie. NKT/WSS has attempted this same wacky strategy with The Dalai Lama. Again and again, NKT shows that years of training under Gyatso produces moronic PR, revealing that Gyatso's purported spiritual realizations and Buddhahood are bogus.

Perhaps, like NKT/WSS protests against The Dalai Lama, NKT/WSS is planning to protest against Dr. Thurman.

What are the chances that a letter to Gyatso would be answered - either heart-felt or similarly irritating as the NKT/WSS letters to Dr. Thurman and The Dalai Lama? Perhaps, more should write Gyatso....and then assemble their lack of Gyatso response, packaging it to represent Gyatso's agreement with the letters.

One expert's assessment of NKT's latest ruling class bravado:

"The NKT may have dug themselves into a bit of a hole. Dr Thurman can read Tibetan and has access to the violent sectarian diatribes written by the lamas that worshipped this spirit. He should provide these as his response to show that the worshippers of this spirit are intolerant, sectarian and violent in their attitudes to other schools and were indeed the Taliban of Buddhism.

Some of this stuff such as the Yellow Book, where Trijang Rinpoche praises this spirit for killing Gelug lamas that take teachings from other traditions have already been translated, as have further comments by Trijang that this spirit gives non-sectarian Gelugpas heart attacks and stops them from achieving anything in their lives. Despite kelsang's dismissal of these texts, they are just the tip of the iceberg and Dr. Thurman can show this so no one is in any doubt about how this spirit was promoted by its most respected followers.

The NKT's letter to Dr. Thurman shows their deep ignorance of how other traditions operate. There has long been an exchange of ideas and practices between schools. The four main schools of Tibetan Buddhism were never as isolated as the NKT suggests. There were many Lamas who followed teachings of all schools, such as Je Tsongkhapa. In recent times Lamas such as Khunu Lama Tenzin Gyaltsen, one of the Dalai Lama's main teachers, was so nonsectarian that nobody knew which school he actually 'belonged' to, as he taught practices from each school exactly according to the methods set forth by each respective school.

That these spirit worshippers are supported by China is clear when one observes the activities of lamas such as Gangchen, who used the Chinese authorities to enforce spirit worship in his own monastery in Tibet. His support for the Chinese fake Panchen lama is also well known. Kundeling's recent comments in support of the Chinese occupation of Tibet and his condemnation of the Dalai Lama and the Tibetan Government in Exile also show China's influence. These lamas and their followers have received support from the Chinese government and have taken part in WSS protests, so the link between the WSS and China is clear."


A Shugdenite/NKT blog has provided further information and devotee response to this matter.

"On 28 April 1997, Newsweek magazine published an article by Tony Clifton called “Cult Mystery - did an obscure Tibetan sect murder three monks close to the Dalai Lama”. The article was the start of the propaganda against Shugden practitioners in general and the New Kadampa Tradition in particular by the Dalai Lama and his followers. It was in this article that the Dalai Lama unfairly and unjustifiably used the word ‘cult’ in relation to the NKT, mud that has stuck for ten years.

Here’s a selection of Thurman’s quotes from the article:

“I think there’s no doubt that Shugden was behind the killings,” says Robert Thurman, America’s foremost Buddhist scholar and an old friend of the Dalai Lama’s. “The three were stabbed repeatedly and cut up in a way that was like an exorcism.” Dorje Shugden has had an underground following among Tibetans obsessed with doctrinal purity for centuries. “It would not be unfair to call Shugdens the Taliban of Tibetan Buddhism,” says Thurman, referring to the Muslim extremists of Afghanistan, who believe in swift and brutal justice. “Shugden appeals to crazies by offering instant gratification,” says Thurman. “Once you get involved, you’re told you have to devote your lives to the cult, because the god gets very angry if you don’t attend to him every day. It’s really bad stuff, the way they’re draining money out of people.”

Robert Thurman has long been involved in the corruption in the Tibetan Government in Exile. Anyone who gets too close to the Dalai Lama and the Tibetan Government seems to become corrupted."

Interesting, more than 11 years later, Shugdenites/NKT have revived NKT controversy over the murder of Lamas associated with The Dalai Lama.

The Chief of Police in India, reporting about the murders of the 3 Lamas associated with The Dalai Lama, "we have clear indications that the murderers are directly linked to the Shugden association." According to a June 22, 2007 press article, "Interpol has issued wanted notices for two followers of a Tibetan sect accused of the ritualistic killing a decade ago of one of the Dalai Lama’s closest associates. The attack, in which two students were also killed, was apparently in revenge for the Nobel peace laureate’s decision to ban the group after more than three centuries of mystic controversy. The Interpol Red Notices for Lobsang Chodak, 36, and Tenzin Chozin, 40, issued at the request of the Indian police, are believed to be among the first demands by another country to arrest Chinese citizens living within their own country’s borders." (see Interpol, Interview)

Dear Dr. Thurman:
Please accept our apology for NKT's actions.


Editor's Note:
NKT/WSS interestingly continues its aspiration to be removed from Nyingma in preference for Gelugpa - both schools of Tibetan Buddhism. Gyatso considers Tibetan Buddhism degenerate, excommunicating himself from it 20 years ago. Still, Gyatso maintains his pretense of caring for one school of Tibetan Buddhism. Background of Gyatso's schism is presented on this web site's Read More page and in the essay entitled, Just Another Fundamentalist.


September 24, 2008, a NKT supporter posted the following photo and paragraph. The photo depicts Gyatso's point person for the protests against The Dalai Lama. In April 2008, Gyatso stated, "I personally will organise demonstrations against the Dalai Lama directly. I requested Kelsang Pema and Kelsang Thubchen to do this job for me and they have accepted." Dr. Thurman is holding a copy of NKT's brochure about The Dalai Lama, The Tibetan Situation Today.


"Robert Thurman met Kelsang Pema briefly while the Western Shugden Society was protesting outside the Dalai Lama’s teachings at Lehigh University in Bethleham, Pennsylvania. When she first approached him he said “You should be ashamed of yourself!” Pema said that she had heard the he had been saying that the Western Shugden Society was sponsored by the Chinese. Robert Thurman replied “Of course your funded by the Chinese.” Pema asked what proof he had to base his statements on. He said “You use the same terminology as the Chinese like ‘fuedalism’ and ‘theocracy’.” Can you believe that this is the kind of information that Robert Thurman bases his statements on? Is he really a bestselling author?"

A blog responder to this story stated, "I was thinking about the meeting with Taliaban Bob greeting a visitor to our country from another land and what he said to her. Bob is a passive agressive bi polar pathological liar with big delusions of grandeur. Basically he is what we refer to as an asshole."